Meeting minutes 27-08-2021

Hello all,

Today we focused on preparing for the upcoming onboarding of new groups next week and our in-person meeting in Tallinn:

Previous key decisions

  • We will publish a draft security spec to with help from DIAL

  • We will continue to review the Security, Information Mediator, Registration and Payments

  • We need to improve onboarding materials by the end of the month, including improving our elevator pitches:
    Elevator pitches and visual aids - Google Documenten, updating the BB specification template (remove tables, add footers, versioning and numbering):
    Building Block Definition Template.docx - Google Documenten and the workgroup cookbook: Working group cookbook - Google Documenten

  • Anita will help review onboarding materials

  • We will review the checklist weekly with all callers in the cross-group meeting

  • We still need to clearly set expectations around what GovStack is and isn’t

  • We need to define GovStack relates to existing DPG solutions, e.g. OpenIMIS. For example, does OpenIMIS need to decompose into building blocks to be compliant, or is interoperability via calling into some set of GovStack APIs (e.g. Payments, ID) or access to a FHIR registry via a GovStack adapter enough?

  • We need to find a way to bring Dr. Ramkumar to the GovStack meetup in a month!

  • Positioning of the project needs to be clarified as to what we are and aren’t doing.

  • Adding Networking BB team is a critical need

  • We need to add use cases for a specific country and application (or a best guess)

  • We will work to specify a FHIR adapter in tandem with the workflow group.

  • We will review Ramkumar’s proposed checklist document to track progress across groups after he publishes it on the architecture group google drive.

  • Ramkumar will try using the checklist with groups before we roll it out to the groups to fill out themselves

  • We will review Trevor’s document standards proposal with the aim of rolling it out across groups. The goal is to be able to look at a printed or electronic copy of a given document and be able to reference across document versions in a durable way

  • We need a way to publish our specifications as .pdf files on the website to allow for durable linking across versions.

  • The architecture team will work on prototyping this document versioning, publishing and cross-linking approach, including tooling to auto-publish nightly versions of google docs (thanks for the idea Uwe!)

Overview of workgroup progress
Review progress on Issue Tracker

Next week we can review progress, write more use cases and continue to address remaining issues in Issues · GitHub
We will also address Uwe’s questions about editing/adding categories to the DPC catalog. We’d like a webinar about this.

From the chat:
I have to drop for another meeting. Talk to you all next week
Here is the latest version of the BB definition template:


Minutes (See Meeting minutes for recordings):
Uwe 0:00
As she had some, some quite some background on those things. Yeah. And basically what, what, I mean, from what I understood from that meeting was that fire is defining contents. The structure of contents and open API does not open API, just requires that the API’s are documented in in a format that is readable by software. That’s my understanding of from yesterday’s call. And the developers had looked at like libraries that they could use, they’re already looking at the fire implementation guides, which which to an automatic automated documentation of API’s. And they also found libraries that could, like, expose the API documentation in a swagger readable format so that sounded well ended, it would have been no nice to see from your side of that, that compliance with your view.

Max Carlson 1:13
Well I mean so open API 3.1 Actually, can you can have it actually held support for embedded JSON schemas. Oh, we lost them. I hope I didn’t. Oh no. Okay, so anyway, uh, so Jason schema. You can embed these inside of open API 3.1 Um, but, you know, briefly. It allows you to specify a, you know, kind of a, you know, format of data structures as well so I think having those it’s not just the API’s but you can also specify the format of what’s what, what the responses are using JSON schema. So, um, that’s, uh, that, that’s. So that’s my understanding.

Uwe 2:17
I mean we can repeat it, like maybe in a month or something like this. Yeah, cool. there’s no pressing, pressing to do right now but we have another project starting now and that will continue a bit of the discussion time. Right. And then maybe based on what you have seen from the notes and giving feedback to them if you tell it to me then. We’ll be most likely last.

Max Carlson 2:44
Yeah, it’s like a game of telephone. Yeah that’s fine I mean, so, but but the idea is that you can also specify, you know, Message bodies to the content of Message bodies and there’s like a clear way to do that. So anyway, um let’s, you know, we can have a more nuanced discussion about that later but that’s, it’s good. No, it’s good news that it seems like it’s not going to be, you know, super arduous to do that. Um. Yep, so that’s great. Okay.

Uwe 3:14
I don’t know that I’m seeing Stephen and that I have a priorities luck’s always wanting to us similar about repositories where you’re able to do something with the link so I sent to you.

Steve 3:29
I have them. I’m sorry I have not put them in, yet being, I was traveling for a couple of weeks, just have not caught up on that, but I have them, and I will get those in. Yes,

Uwe 3:45
but you think they will help I’m not trying to push anything but don’t feel pushed funny. Yeah,

Steve 3:54
yeah. And it wasn’t sure, like, this is a good open question for you like, you know, some products, we’d just link to, if they have a repository that that has a distribution, you know like their Dockerized version of it, or if there are special specific there, it depends on how its structured some, some tools like open LM is has, you know, they just have a set of micro services so it makes sense to include all of the repositories. I guess my question is, yeah. Does it make sense for open ms to include all of these, or is there a distribution repository that we should focus on or is there like a main back end repo and I mean front end repo or

Uwe 4:49
IE, yeah I think we could also find that a Docker repository. I’m not sure how complete it is, but I was always a bit worried about the about the activity index like the in the tile catalog activity from the repositories, and this is also being sent to our watches other digital public good alliance a they have another catalog somewhere. And they’re also just looking at this one activity next from that one repository and then of course if you have a rock repository, like a metal repository or something like this, this will look pretty dead because you don’t have too many changes in there. Sure, that would not be fair, the other question would be about the lines of code. I use pulling them from the repositories or was that something that we adopt manually. No,

Steve 5:50
that’s no we pull, we do a nightly pull from the repositories and get that data directly from.

Uwe 5:58
And are you digging on to the Dockers to, to get the complete picture.

Steve 6:04
No we’re not driving into, so a Docker repository would not have much in terms of lines of code GitHub just doesn’t offer that functionality or those API’s, as far as I

Uwe 6:18
know that’s what I was fearing, and I’m just leaving it as an open open question, and I saw that, for example, open Mrs you had listed like 10 repositories or something like that. I think it’s a structural question that might need to be solved.

Steve 6:43
Yes. Yeah. But yeah, why don’t I bring it in, I’ll bring in these repositories there, maybe 30 or so. And then, and then we can see how it looks. Yeah.

Uwe 7:02
Maybe it’s something you can play around with and use as an example or something.

Ramkumar 7:07

Steve 7:09
this and also Yeah, a couple other platforms that are. Yeah. I also added to our backlog, we want to bring in functionality so that, you know, so you kind of has to use the back end tools to add or remove repositories, but I want to add that to the front end so that, you know, any product owner could go ahead and add and remove and update the repository so in a way that makes sense to them and their product, just so we’re not making decisions for different tools. So let’s get our backlog, but in the meantime I’ll just have to add, I will add them to our back end.

Uwe 7:49
Now, so always a question of the effects that it has slowly like fixed line of code or something like this and of course it would be necessary but is it just the point at work if you download this stuff. I might even want to point you to a wiki page, where we have all that listed anyway. Well, just something to think about. The final, final question, too much should I follow up to establish context to try to. Yeah, I mean why not. I don’t see why not. Yeah. Yeah, so sorry for being short but always looking at my battery’s not,

Ramkumar 8:37
that’s okay,

Max Carlson 8:38
that’s okay, you know, I thank you for calling in from your van I mean that’s kind of amazing. So don’t worry about it.

Uwe 8:46
That was my mode of operation for two years. So good. Okay, then. Thanks for giving me the orgies let them enjoy your weekends.

Max Carlson 8:58
Okay, you too. Thanks for calling.

All right, so, uh, let’s see, so I guess what I thought we could do is maybe try to apply Trevor’s specification to the building block definition template, because I’m going to be introducing it on the first. Yeah, so like a Monday. Um, it’s going to be introduced to some different work groups so I thought it would be a good opportunity especially with a. We got the ideal crew here to get it done. How’s that sound.

Steve 9:41
Yeah, can we also, it looks like you. I don’t, as you Max, put in, I was thinking about the base camp agenda for the difficult track, yeah. Did you put this stuff in, just, it’s since yesterday.

Max Carlson 9:56
Let me just, let me just put the. So you’re talking about that Excel sheet.

Steve 10:01
Yeah, yeah.

Max Carlson 10:03
No, I think honey did. So, This, this thing. I’m sharing my screen.

Steve 10:12
Yeah there’s a Thursday technical track page, specifically, right. Oh, it was empty yesterday, so no yeah it was on my list to chat with you all about. Yeah, if you go up and left there’s some there’s,

Max Carlson 10:27
there’s more data, okay.

Steve 10:29
I just, I didn’t know where this came from and I think some of it is, it was even more to the left. Oh yeah. All right. Yeah, I just wanted to chat with you and see if, when agenda makes sense and if these are. Yeah, I don’t know, Maybe it was handy to put these in, but it’s really, what are our priorities for the base camp, track, and

Max Carlson 10:55
right you know certainly wasn’t me so as either honey or Ramkumar I’m guessing. Um, so, I mean, as far as I’m concerned, we can do, you know, I mean, this is our kind of rare chance to be in a room together. Yeah, so, um, it might be better to spend the time, you know, working, I mean, doing things that are better facilitated in that space. I mean, we, you know, rather than focusing on the building blocks specifications and all of that. I mean I feel like we’re reasonably effective at doing that in these meetings remotely. So, you know Yeah, I was kind of imagining just looking at this that we would be doing a bit more, you know, brainstorming and kind of exercises and things like that. But, uh, you know, we do need to at the same time we do need to focus on, you know, the building blocks specifications and getting those delivered. So, yeah, I mean what are your thoughts. Yeah I mean I think

Steve 12:08
what’s in here it’s some of it I thought, you know, I agree with you, we’ve got everybody in a room, and so what, what can we do best all together

Max Carlson 12:17
like whiteboarding like it’s a rare opportunity to have a whiteboard, you know what I mean. Right, right. So so I think

Steve 12:24
I’ve noticed like, I wonder if we could, I was thinking about how do we hear from each Working Group on what their core issues or challenges are. And then, you know, I think I’ve heard things even last week, there was still a conversation happening about foundational identity versus who does, you know, things like who does what, in the ID building block versus security building block I think we’ve got those resolved largely but there. There are we

Max Carlson 12:57
don’t we don’t I mean, I had a call with honey earlier today and I was like you know we don’t have this resolved but right, you know,

Steve 13:04
close to all be in a room, so think about is how do we how do we surface all the issues that we know about and have open conversations about them and then thinking about how do we document those I mean we have some tools, you know, whether it’s six chords or. But I think there’s a conversation about what are the open issues, resolving the ones, documenting those decisions, which also connects to tooling, do we, yeah, yeah. Okay, is there a cooling conversation that would be helpful around, you know. Yeah, right. How do you do that, exactly, you know, other thing I was thinking about is some of the work that you all are trying to do those. The craft building block flows. Yeah and I think being in a room and we’re doing some of that. Yeah, we really help service things, so like can we choose some scenarios to map all flows between building blocks because that’s where we’re in a really, we’re all in a room and that’s we’re gonna get to like we was doing that or right, you know, well I thought you were going to handle that.

Max Carlson 14:23
Yeah, I mean it’s it’s maybe like, so really quickly because I don’t know, I mean you’ve been on vacation, I think so. Here’s, here’s sort of like what, what I’ve been trying to do to mitigate the risk

Steve 14:35
of this exactly we we talked through this is just great. Yeah, I’m just saying let’s do more of this, like,

Max Carlson 14:43
exactly. The different building blocks if we can. Yesterday was super exciting because we had everybody on the call, other than ID, and so we were able to work through and so we really flesh these out. And

Steve 14:57
maybe that’s not a priority for Basecamp, but I was thinking about.

Max Carlson 15:00
Yeah, I think so to, uh, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean the other thing is workgroups, you know if we can include the workgroups. Um, yeah, so, um, anyway, that’s all captured there now. I mean I think it’s, uh, you know, this is definitely not set in stone so I you know I have the same sort of, well obviously I kind of like Miss that entire Oh god. Oh, just this whole I get I’m almost traumatized by SharePoint. At this point, you’ve got like SharePoint PTSD. So, um, but yeah, so, um, clearly a lot of thought has been put into this, you know, but this sort of seems around the steering committee focused and then this is sort of our focus, I guess this is our time, and then maybe a little bit of Friday but not really. So, um, I mean I think these topics are good in general but I’d like to do focus more on this stuff, that, that we, you know that, because I feel like, as long as we can get people on the phone call. We do pretty well at hashing this stuff out in real time. And then at least as far as it goes like there, this is the entire thing that they have to consider is these three arrows. Right. And there’s some debate about like who’s doing the provisioning should the building block to the provision probably right. I don’t know, but, um, uh, you know, this will be good because it kind of, you know, it should be, when we can get them, it’ll be a nice focus conversation is the idea. So maybe we can, You know, you know, work with ID. You know, I mean that would be great.

Steve 16:59
I’m just wondering, maybe I can even take a stab at, I mean, I think, because our time is limited. Yeah, funded have this structured in a way, you know, I think there’ll be some sort of free flowing brainstorming things but maybe we can. I think we’ve got, I think this list is good but add some structure to it in terms of like, Alright here’s morning session one morning session two. Yeah, afternoon, one.

Max Carlson 17:24
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, I mean, um, that’s fine I mean, you know, I haven’t really to be honest been paying like. Very good, very close attention to this, I just looked at it this morning for the first time so yeah, I’m so please, you know, feel free to dive in and then Trevor Are you gonna be able to call in, at least for some of this like, are you just under the gun. We normally have our Thursday. All right, so maybe you’ve got that blocked out anyway. Yeah.

Trevor 18:05
Yeah, I think maybe I should, we should be smart about this to say which ones do you think would make most sense for me to be there, or party to. And then I can work around that is just my calendar is kind of all over the place I’m working on kind of five different projects at the moment. Yeah. So, and the time zones are, you know, from Beijing to Portugal, so it’s a bit of a mess. CERT we just have to swap things in, and winning. Well, I

Max Carlson 18:41
think, you know, it can go kind of two ways like being a remote caller into a like in person meeting can be kind of boring and terrible but, you know, it could also be useful. I mean, we’re going to cancel the Thursday, uh, you know, we’re not going to have the cross group meeting like that’s not on this agenda and I don’t think it should be. Or maybe it should be right maybe we take advantage of that time and then invite all the groups to, you know, Tell us about their issues and challenges. Right, so that would make sense actually. And that’s, you know on Thursdays, that is typically from 230 on so we can put that in here.

Trevor 19:26
Just kind of interested, I think of a hackathon. Now,

Max Carlson 19:34
there’s no hackathon and, yeah,

Trevor 19:37
I just wonder if I know it’s kind of jumping ahead, yeah. But in the thinking of failing early. Yeah, we’ve got some key people particularly the technical guys. Yeah, and a couple of functional guys, I think that there’s nothing like a real world example, to get consensus. Yeah, I agree. So I don’t know if we’ve got, if they could arrange, you know, like a, like a hackathon and maybe, you know, even from the sap side I could see if we can open up some API’s that can be stubbed or something like that. And I think that that would be really helpful for people, I mean, just simply on the log on and you know the difference between authorization authentication, and how that would actually work, you because you’ve got two classifications of people obviously you’ve got the, you know, the steering committees and teams which need to break out and decide how they’re going to to focus the this solution, but the on the solution side equals functional guys then you’ve got some technical guys, so wouldn’t, because there’s one thing that is really hard to do, is a hackathon, when everyone’s remote, that is probably the hardest thing to do because you can’t focus on on the soul that’s what’s happening here, you know, right. I don’t know whether that would be something. Because I think that once you’ve built something and you can actually see the patterns, rather than doing them off theory, yeah. Reality right get emotionally set up together, you know, whatever, and maybe spend a day and a half doing. I don’t know if that makes sense.

Max Carlson 21:48
I think I think it’d be, I think it’d be brilliant. I just don’t think we’re anywhere near you know until we have like a reference implementation, it would be hard, I mean we could try to build a reference implementation but I don’t know if that’s really doable in a day, even

Trevor 22:06
I don’t think we necessarily have to do the cloud and, you know, in terms of, I mean, igma has got his bed with I’m sure we’ve gotten an instance of information mediated that we can use. I think we could find an instance of some kind of security solution, even if it’s like an LDAP server, or some kind of as your demo, or something of that nature. You know, and even if you’ve looked at the flows that you were showing earlier. Yeah. I think there’s some value, and there’s nothing to stop you studying, you know, for the BBC comedy.

Max Carlson 22:44
Right, Exactly.

Trevor 22:48
So, I don’t know I just put it out there because, you know, if you take an agile, you know, a truly agile approach you build it and then. Yeah. Then I just thought,

Ramkumar 23:06
like, yeah, like

Uwe 23:08
this. This whole process

Steve 23:10
is kind of the opposite of Agile. If we could once we get to the actual reference implementation phase, then we’ll have something.

Trevor 23:24
A lot of these things theoretically work really well and, you know, we had the discussion yesterday about the payment gateway. Yeah. And, you know, Ignace said, I just thought there was going to be a button that you hit pay, and it would go to the building block and do everything else by magic, Right now, if you look at the merger look architecture there aren’t account on the car, you know, services, and you know merchant codes and all this kind of stuff. But that’s only if you look at Mosaic, I think that’s only for mobile money, I don’t think the merging is for traditional Visa and MasterCard and those kind of things, right. So, you know, I think, if when you try it, and you see what it can and what it can’t do, then it places patterns because what I’m, I think with the security stuff and the non functional stuff. I’m relatively happy that we will hit a reasonable specifications. What I’m less comfortable with is on the functional side. Because as soon as you go to the functional stylishly what the government’s are going to buy, by the way they buy functional non functional. Then, what exactly are you going to show them, and, you know. Are there hidden requirements that you haven’t even contemplated. For example, If you’re looking at things like UI. One of the advantages that we have of using OData version seven is the annotations allow you to do dynamic binding to controls. Right, so I don’t know if you’ve played around with this. I know it’s very Microsoft the very SAP thing but the whole concept of this is that your controls can bind to the API’s at runtime, as opposed to at design time.

Max Carlson 25:22
Oh sure, yeah I mean there’s similar sort of things that do that with the open API open API’s but yeah, I mean you’re just mapping, you’re, you’re mapping the data types to, you know controls and sort of a structured way. Yeah,

Trevor 25:35
yeah exactly those kind of things. And I think when you actually start looking at, you know, integrating, you know, say, the merging to emails, registration building block through the information videos, then will continue, you’re gonna have a lot of funding getting done if you get that done in a day and a half, but the learning that you get from that I think is invaluable in terms of how your specifications on plan, and what can you do with the building, and what can we not do because it’s not only about capabilities was about constraint, right. Yep, the grid.

Max Carlson 26:18
You know I like I like the idea, I mean I think at this point in time, the most that we could do a hackathon with there’s probably register, registration, and in the information mediator, and that’s just because there’s already something there to start with just a PLC so we could try to iterate on that and hook up, you know, some, something to do with payments or just build like a, or even just like the IAM stuff I think would be really interesting.

Trevor 26:51
Yeah because don’t forget that most of the large software provided enable you to use trial accounts. Yeah, you know, like your or whatever they give you a 30 day trial. So, if you for example just taken as your platform you can set up set up Active Directory or an LDAP server then you’ve got registration information mediator, And if you’re not sure if you’ve got any money from the payment stream that’s going, but if you were able to get the motor league stuff up and running or get an instance running. Yeah, I think you could get quite a bit done, and certainly SAP API’s as you saw there. So you just, we just get to it and just.

Max Carlson 27:39
Yep, yep. So there’s that. We could also, you know, work on building an adapter. Exactly. So like fire like or, you know, SAP, executive, so

Trevor 27:56
I think there’s that kind of stuff I think would be not only really useful, but it’s also a validation of the work done to date so are we on track. Is this something that can be realistically delivered. And when we do get the RFID back and build the environments. Have we got patterns, and a baseline architecture that we can work off that says what what an MVP would be.

Max Carlson 28:19
Yep. Yep. Yeah, and it also gets us, you know, allows us to flesh it out a little bit, you know, there’s this whole question about what are the gaps. Right, what are the gaps overlaps and duplications, what are the gaps. I mean this kind of helps you figure that out. So, yeah. So, you know, maybe we can take the afternoon and do that, I’m not sure. I liked the idea a lot. I mean, it’s much more interesting and fun then you know to do in a room together then, you know, to just go over the same documents that we go over on, you know, it’d be much more fun to do something more engaging like that.

Trevor 29:06
So yeah and you can build good relationships with the teams to do that because you get everybody focused on a task. I think what is it three days that you’re all together.

Max Carlson 29:19
Well, not really. I mean there’s, there’s, you know Wednesday it’s like a day and a half, so short. Yeah, so we have like this Thursday thing and, you know, and then Wednesday and then Thursday and then, you know, some people are going to be around on Friday, some people will stay longer, but I don’t know who. Right, so, um, It’s not very long. That’s the problem. So, you know, and it’s like I you know I personally I feel like I you know I wish there were. I wish we were all kind of meeting together so that you know it’s also like this, there’s talking about the partnerships outreach and advocacy, I mean it’s like you, you probably, you know I mean getting the SAP perspective on that would be really handy. Right. So, you know, sort of mixing these things up a little bit, would be kind of interesting, I think, you know. But, um, yeah. Okay. Cool. So let’s just go. Yeah, I like it. Um, you know, I don’t know how we’ll squeeze it in the time but maybe we can do that, I mean I think what we can do is at least there’s you know at 230. There’s this. So that’s why I had this here was like you know 230 Because we’re going to get that’s when we’re on we have on the calendar to leave for the car. So we could just, you know, make that short. This time, but I think it’s like people already have that on their calendars Trevor can, you know, dial in for that and stay on if he has, has time but at least we could just get the feedback from groups, then whoever can join. So, because that’s already on the calendar and we could just make it a short meeting with the cross group stuff.

Steve 31:23
Oh, that’s the yeah, sorry I didn’t realize this the regular

Max Carlson 31:25
yeah it’s just the regular thing on Thursdays anyway so we can either cancel it, or take advantage of it. And people already have the time blocked out so, um, so it might be a good time to get the feedback, you know, and we can talk about our understanding of it in the morning and then, you know, get people to dish if they will on, you know, get their get their feedback. Okay. So I think this is better. It’s more broken up. But yeah I you know I would really like to do this hackathon, but it’s like,

Steve 32:16
yeah, we only have a few hours.

Max Carlson 32:19
Exactly. So, yeah, okay, well, I mean, I think, like, the most important thing is just like people being able to see each other face to face. Anyway, so

Steve 32:35
yeah I do agree, but that will facilitate working together better moving forward.

Max Carlson 32:41
Yep. Okay, so, um, he only thing.

Steve 32:46
I’m just sort of adding and updating but, yeah,

Max Carlson 32:49
yeah go for it. Um, so I think the. I just want to make sure that this template, you know, because I’m going to be. I’m going to be presenting it like the building block definition template. On Monday, again, onboarding three more groups, or four, I forget, however, you know, but anyway, there’s a bunch. So it’s a good opportunity before they take this and sort of fork it and start making it their own to improve the template design. So I mean the first thing that I would probably do is add, you know, numbering, or something like that, right, or, you know, just so that the to see is kind of. So, Yeah, we got the key digital functionalities.

So, so I think the main thing is we need numbering on all these things right.

Steve 34:01
Yeah, that would help just to give us a good clean index. I’m

Trevor 34:13
sorry. Today, so I don’t,

Max Carlson 34:20
that’s okay. That didn’t work the way I wanted it. So what is it, what’s the magic thing that makes the show up on the in the TRC. Anybody know, like why, you know,

Trevor 34:39
it’s the filament, like Heading One, Heading Two, but I don’t know how to do that with this.

Max Carlson 34:44
Well, yeah. It’s got normal text, it’s got normal text but yeah somehow it’s like figuring out, right, right, but this one what’s weird is this one shows up right in the to see, I don’t really understand why that is, Um, whereas this one doesn’t.

Uwe 35:05

Max Carlson 35:10
yeah, format. Bullets and Numbering.

Trevor 35:21
It should be the paragraph styles, yeah.

Max Carlson 35:23
Yeah exactly, but it’s the it’s just set to normal text so I don’t really. Okay, well, I’m just gonna go in and make these all just, I’m gonna make these all kind of use the standardized formatting, And then we’ll just deal with that.

Maybe that one doesn’t need to be that way. Okay but description is gonna be, you know, Heading One. I’m just gonna brute force it. I’m sorry this is kind of dull. But, I think, I think it’s important. It’s so example key functionalities so

I guess this will be heading two examples for registration building block.

Trevor 36:34
And then, I guess we’ll those bullets will be numbered, I guess.

Max Carlson 36:40
Right, exactly, a good point. So, um, so this is just really fortuitous we got just the right crew on this call to make this happen so yeah I think having the numbers there. I guess I forgot to number these, how do we, how do you turn on the automatic numbering though. I don’t know,

that’s kind of unfortunate, but I guess they’ll just figure it out. But then you kind of want these to be two or three, or whatever, right. Well,

Trevor 37:26
not necessarily I mean, it’s nice to have them in the outline, and it’s always interesting going through these other documents. Yeah. Because as long as you can reference it. It’s fine. So you could say in Section 2.2 Yeah, requirement. A also NP or, or numbers, whatever, right, but you don’t get the outline. The problem with the outlining, is that your outlining requires a title. Right, right. Otherwise, the whole thing gets done. And that can get quite clumsy. Right, exactly. Okay,

Max Carlson 38:07
so that’s fine, do that three that was oh, that kind of falls out okay, uh, you know, example cross cutting requirements so I would make this like a heading, I think.

Oh yeah, on that second one on why that is super bizarre. And it’d be kind of good to accept Jake’s, you know, comments there. I don’t know what the procedure there is.

Trevor 38:49
I wouldn’t number them manually because when you change them and add them it doesn’t work, There should be on Microsoft Word, you have what they call multi level, numbering. Right.

Max Carlson 39:21
Yeah, so a numbered list I think this is it. So we just want to make the whole thing like a numbered list I guess.

Trevor 39:29
I noted word when you do that, it messes it up,

Max Carlson 39:31
well let’s try it. So, just everybody hold off on your editing and I’ll just see if I can. I mean that’s kind of like the only thing I can figure right is something like this. Oh god. Yeah, okay. So, let’s see you know like, yeah, so I don’t know. How do I add numbering to this header though that’s not manual. Let’s see. So, the security you managed to pull that off or is it all just manual, I think it’s, it’s, I think it’s manual,

Ramkumar 40:18
which is really unfair I still feel I still feel it is worth at one time pain. Automatically sequence after that, you add anything.

Max Carlson 40:27
Yeah, cuz this is not, you know. Exactly so. Uh huh. Okay so, scratch that. So I guess we just kind of have to bite the bullet, hmm. And let’s let us

Ramkumar 40:41
try how many pages just 11 pages here.

Max Carlson 40:45
Yeah, so I guess from here on.

Ramkumar 40:52
No, but did you have that mode.

Max Carlson 40:55
Now, I mean I did but I ended it. So, paragraph styles. You know, Bullets and Numbering.

Ramkumar 41:06
Numbered Lists numbered lists of the best.

Max Carlson 41:08
Yeah, so we just want like that list options. Wow, Google’s UI is so shitty

Trevor 41:21
using it when I was working on it. It was just completely unusable for me.

Max Carlson 41:27
Yeah, exactly. So okay, well, look at that, like now it’s numbered so

Ramkumar 41:31
delete that.

Max Carlson 41:33
I guess we can, you know, let’s see, I was just gonna show you Africa do you think another number is automatically added

Trevor 41:48
it. All I’m saying it, it is a problem. If you use numbered list because that’s not the right.

Max Carlson 41:57
Yeah, so, or, you know only numbered headings Yeah. Was it. Yeah, my screen also just saw there’s a Google add on called Table of Contents, so I think that’s what we want. Um,

Trevor 42:31
you see it’s the, it’s not the the numbered list so if you for example do bullet point. Let’s just do like 123.

Ramkumar 42:45
And then you need to choose it based on the time you go here. Sub model, all that stuff.

Trevor 42:54
The 1231 Well, let me see if I, on your headings.

Max Carlson 42:59
I’m just gonna force that’s normally

Trevor 43:01
the heading number. Because otherwise what happens is that as you’re using the template every time you start a new paragraph. It starts re numbering and you don’t want that. Nobody loses track.

Max Carlson 43:20
Yeah, I don’t know if this is really gonna work so it doesn’t work. Yeah, I know we I know we’re going to need to. So, I’m going to undo that for now and then I’m going to just try to put in a T OC at the top because we know we’re going to get that right. And

Trevor 43:41
so, if you look into the Word document that I’m sharing. This is the left to use with the heading, I

Ramkumar 43:48
just want to add on, I just want the numbers,

Trevor 43:50
because otherwise it doesn’t work.

Ramkumar 43:53
No, once again before you undo it before you undo it and you go to the top one.

Trevor 44:01
And there’s a one with the headings and that’s the one you have to you.

Max Carlson 44:06
Are you are you screen sharing Trevor, because I’m not. Oh I see.

Trevor 44:10
Yeah. So, what I was trying to show is, I don’t know what it is. If you use this numbered list, it doesn’t work properly because it every paragraph has an indent, Great, you have to use this one with the heading. So, this is the one that you use for the heading formats.

Max Carlson 44:31
I see. I see, okay, and maybe just, this is what I’m saying. Right, so maybe that’s just missing from Google Docs.

Ramkumar 44:43
To begin, just checking in.

Max Carlson 44:46
Yeah so numbered list. There’s nothing about headings. So, um, yeah.

Ramkumar 44:55
Screen is this right now. Mine. Okay,

Max Carlson 45:00
so, you know, uh, I think it’s just going to be a manual thing. And anyway, it’s kind of good because people have to think about it. If they’re gonna reorder stuff in their document. So let’s just call it a feature, not a bug. Haha,

Ramkumar 45:17
no I wanted to tell you one thing, before you resign from doing this. Just just go back to that number putting like input 123 Doesn’t matter

Max Carlson 45:30
what I mean. So, the problem though is that this does not have the. It doesn’t have the numbered. You know the list option so there’s no way to just do headers, I think, so let’s try.

Ramkumar 45:44
Just go there, just do that ones. Let me try something.

Max Carlson 45:48
Okay, so, Bullets and Numbering here’s a numbered list. We’ll do this file, and then there’s a sort of list options. Let’s look in there.

Ramkumar 45:58
No no no we wait list options let’s go to the beginning. What the hell, that’s like number. Number or.or Whatever, That’s okay. Yeah, just go to the beginning. Ah, okay. Now, you delete. Yeah, just put a backspace on the to number two,

Max Carlson 46:19
no it doesn’t work that way.

Ramkumar 46:22
Right does, just do that again. Yeah, yeah.

Max Carlson 46:31
Oh geez what a, what a drag. Okay, so there must be some way to. Let’s. So let’s just apply it this way. Hmm, wow, that’s crazy. How annoying. You know, I

Ramkumar 46:51
guess you need that. Yes, yes, yes. Oh,

Max Carlson 46:56
you’re a gentleman and a scholar. See, we got just the right crew, you came on and just the right moment. Ramkumar, so. Oh, and these are actually numbered. So these are we actually want these to be numbered so

Ramkumar 47:15
that you do, first you first you delete that and then you put a tab, it will sub number automatically. You just need to see it’s not, it’s not 123456 inside.

Max Carlson 47:28
Yeah, so here I can. Oh yeah, so I have to delete it first. Oh my gosh this is so crazy.

Ramkumar 47:36
So you just restart with one. Right click there, you can’t

Max Carlson 47:40
really it doesn’t work, because it’s exactly, it breaks the, yeah,

Trevor 47:47
yeah, I really struggled with it that’s why when I was, my document template again Yeah.

Ramkumar 47:57
Lately going forward.

Max Carlson 48:00
Yeah, but if I do that then it screws up all the other headers, I think we just have to.

Ramkumar 48:04
No, no, you can you can sub number eight if you right click. Yeah, just go to that five No, five,

Max Carlson 48:09
and then here’s the thing. Here’s the thing, it’s like. So then, okay so that’s kind of what we wanted.

Ramkumar 48:17
Yeah, that’s it, we’re Babbitt take on these things and tablet as you want.

Max Carlson 48:22
Yeah, but I’m not gonna put any renumber, you know I mean so as soon as you as soon as you restart the numbering it screws it all up again.

Ramkumar 48:31
No debit No, assign assign a unique ID that when you tap it. Yeah, and then.

Max Carlson 48:38
Okay so now that I’ve done that, let’s say, you know, if I do this, does it include the numbers, no it doesn’t include the numbers. Ah,

Trevor 48:47
that’s, that’s why I stopped using it.

Ramkumar 48:49
No, because, because you did not put the numbers there, right.

Max Carlson 48:52
Yeah, No, the numbers are here. One is there, but now it doesn’t show up here. So what do I do like, I guess I have to apply the numbering here. I mean, there might be a way to do it right. Oh, geez. So then it’s like not even in sync. So I’m just gonna try deleting this table of contents here and insert another one and see if magically that makes it all work. I mean, this might be just one of the things to your point, that, let’s see, okay so Insert Table of Contents. Now, oh my gosh that is so annoying.

So okay, so you can do this in Microsoft Word. Right. I think that’s what trouble. Yeah. So okay, yeah, that’s, yeah so I’m going to download a. How do I make it, how do I download a copy of a download of Microsoft Word. Alright, so we’ll do that. And then I’m going to open this up in Microsoft Word. How about that. Let’s see what happens. Um, Maybe this is the way to do it.

Trevor 50:25
The other thing as well as, I think if you use the GI Zed teams site. Yeah, you may be able to use the

Ramkumar 50:38
local Kool Aid or

Trevor 50:40
the web version of Word if you don’t have it. So for people that don’t have Microsoft Word and there may be some there. They can, they can always use the team site for editing. The word, I think. So like here is easy, you just put your head, you just put the format as Heading One, Heading Two, and then before we go too much further at that top menu with the review, you, you need to select that, because before we go too much further Max Yeah, you need to. You need to read that numbering. You need to get your numbering right because otherwise if doing afterward messes it all up again, so select the description.

Max Carlson 51:25
Yeah, I’m just trying to clean it all out again. Yep.

Trevor 51:30
Yes, it says select a description. And then in my heading one and then, then under the numbering under the word review. Yeah, click on that. No, the one next to it, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Oh this is on next to it. Yeah, that one, and then go Heading One, Heading Two, which is next one down,

Ramkumar 51:52
not on bottom. Next one down.

Max Carlson 51:55

Trevor 51:56
there you go. Exactly. And then it all works. Okay.

Max Carlson 52:07
Good lord. Insert insert contents listed here, you know, really I just wanted to make this a. Okay and so this one. Again, I should be able to just say make it a Heading One. Oh, hallelujah. Right. And then that just sort of works out.

Trevor 52:38
It’s so much easier and quicker. You know, and then you can either lease the section 3.2 as bullet numbers or you can convert to heading three, and it’s up to the which one makes more sense in the context, and when you write paragraphs and stuff, because some of the content, particularly like in the payment stream they use a lot of verbose wording in diagrams. It makes it easier that every time they hit, you know, enter is not going to stop number in each paragraph which is also

Ramkumar 53:13
right. Can you insert the attendance right now. Yeah, okay.

Max Carlson 53:22
So I just want to get all these headings right. Oh my gosh this is so mundane but it’s got to be done.

Trevor 53:36
And I think once you’ve done it in Word and you upload it to the Google Docs, it works. Once you’ve done it in Word and uploaded, yeah, yeah and weird.

Max Carlson 53:45
Well I think it’s because they have to maintain compatibility but they just have not exposed that

Uwe 53:50

Ramkumar 53:52
drop down list each time and just select select security requirement and say heading two or three or whatever, it’ll automatically numbered. Okay, yeah.

Max Carlson 54:02
Okay. Easy enough. So, uh,

Unknown Speaker 54:08
so Inupiat the contents list. Now, let’s see.

Max Carlson 54:15
Um, okay, I’d like to get rid of this numbering here though. So,

Ramkumar 54:22
it’s connected to the date, the time.

Max Carlson 54:24
Yeah, I’ll just do that. Yeah, exactly. Turn it off, like everywhere.

Unknown Speaker 54:40
There we go.

Trevor 54:43
Now you’ve lost your numbering as well so you need to do those will again. Ah,

Max Carlson 54:51
okay. Yeah, so let’s see. And these.

Ramkumar 55:00
Oh, no one second. Can I help you, just just select that thing at the top, 910 910 etc. Yeah, just select that whole thing. And moving to the left, there is a left and right shift right on the top in the menu. Under, Select, and on the top in the menu under, under View left shift and Rachel tinted under the Oh yeah,

Max Carlson 55:32
that doesn’t, that doesn’t really help

Ramkumar 55:34
though. No, lift, lift you.

Trevor 55:38
It doesn’t remove the numbering you actually have to select Remove numbering, we want

Max Carlson 55:42
the numbering. We actually did one the

Trevor 55:47
first time. So you. That’s how you do it, yeah.

Max Carlson 55:51
So yeah, so here we’re gonna need the numbering. Gosh, how do I make it. Just those maybe

Ramkumar 56:03
not your unshifted, it’ll automatically numbered sub sub. Now, and put numbering now. Now,

Max Carlson 56:21
normal. Oh my gosh.

Ramkumar 56:28
So you can put a heading, and keep it as a watch, I’m

Max Carlson 56:31
just gonna do this because, you know, I can see why, you know, Google has. How do you restart the numbering though now. I’m afraid that

Ramkumar 56:43
you can right click and say he’s done, the standard one.

Max Carlson 56:48

Ramkumar 56:50
see ya, right click, right click a date, right click a date. Yeah, restart numbering. Yep. Okay. Okay.

Max Carlson 57:04
I guess that’s fine. Although, don’t we want to encourage people to, to have these numbered. Like how would I make it be like this, with these I’ll be like, heading three I don’t really like that formatting. I think this is fine the way it is.

Ramkumar 57:19
A updations one more tab we’ll put one more. Supposing you under one let us say you have two items. Yeah. Then you can tap it again and it will do one more sub, sub item sub item.

Max Carlson 57:33
Okay, so this one, I’m just going to format them this way. Um, oh geez, do I just have to delete those. What a drag. A. If I select these I turn off numbering then it just, okay, that works.

Trevor 57:55
Yeah, that’s the right way doing, you just switch off the numbering and then

Ramkumar 58:00
delete the numbering you just suppress different, better to delete to different

Trevor 58:05
format commands.

Max Carlson 58:07
Yeah, okay. So, example cross cutting requirements do we have example cross cutting requirements I guess not. Okay. Did we lose Steve,

Trevor 58:25
are you what are you thinking, open sources using one.

Max Carlson 58:31
What do you think about all of this. I’m

Steve 58:41
watching these questions and numbering,

Max Carlson 58:42
it’s like yeah it’s like the most exciting television show you’ve ever seen. Yes. It’s what you’ve been waiting for. Alright so, that didn’t work. So here, I’ll just turn off the numbering I guess and, yeah, okay. All right, and so these tables are kind of problematic, actually, because, while we’re on this subject. I just wanted to advocate for getting rid of the tables because in security at least, there are all of these tables here. And this should may just takes up so much room and it, you can’t use the outline, as more as clearly, right, because these are all put into tables. So it works for shorter things but for longer things is sort of kind of breaks down

Ramkumar 59:38
and get you may not be able to index, use the index as a hyperlink right inside the table.

Max Carlson 59:44
Yeah, I don’t know I mean, oh well, I guess we should probably put in a to see let’s see how that goes right. Um, let’s see, uh, OH Not here, not there in here. So, okay so, and then this needs to go in the footer, doesn’t it.

Ramkumar 1:00:12
Take the clean version washroom history.

Max Carlson 1:00:15
Yeah but but we need to do the footer so let’s see where’s the footer. How do you view the footer. It’s been so long. Layout, maybe it’s in here.

Trevor 1:00:32
Usually just just just double click on the footer. So, if, if you go back to the main menu.

Max Carlson 1:00:45
Print Layout let me see about that. So, okay, so there’s the footer. Okay, great. So I mean I think if we just move that into the footer then we’re in pretty good shape. Right.

Trevor 1:01:02
Yeah. Does that seem right. And the, the, I put on really is page X. Right, okay, and then I get to why. All right, and then there’s this reference if you if you delete that. Okay.

Max Carlson 1:01:19
Yeah, I think that’s working. So I’m just going to do some formatting of that

designed raw. There we go. We really want everything as railway. Um, well I’ll just use the paint the magic paintbrush I guess is the way to go. Okay. Now usually I’d like some space in there.

Trevor 1:01:54
If you double click that paintbrush then it retains the format. So, if you for example, double click the paintbrush now select the format that you want,

Max Carlson 1:02:05
yeah. Oh man that’s like, see this is invaluable. I’m becoming like a word junkie and now there’s a lot of space being taken up by this footer, maybe I’ll shrink it down. What do you think about that. Go for the 10 point is that too, inhumane for people like skinny Oh,

Ramkumar 1:02:23
can you, Can you just go to the Format footer format, insert footer. It will give you a format you can put this directly in the format,

Max Carlson 1:02:34

Ramkumar 1:02:38
insert, you go to insert, you go to Insert. Yeah, and then choose. No, not this insert, they are on the second line of tabs.

Max Carlson 1:02:48
Oh my God, how can they have too many use named insert What the fuck are they thinking excuse my friend.

Ramkumar 1:02:55
No, the other one does, Apple insert this is Mr. Bill Gates, insert okay so yeah, sure, this insert, you should choose Header Footer. Choose Header Footer

Max Carlson 1:03:09
Header Footer okay here’s a footer

Ramkumar 1:03:12
footer. Yeah, no, you took apartment. Okay, you can put numbering on one side and the title on the other side it will automatically adjust.

Max Carlson 1:03:22
Okay, well you know what I’m just gonna freestyle it and put it over to the right. I’m just gonna format it myself, I don’t know. Cuz I don’t like those, the way those look, but maybe it maybe I’m just being maybe this should be two cells I don’t know.

Ramkumar 1:03:42
No, that is the problem, it will automatically put it into cells and adjust itself. If you do that, it will not No, no, Okay, so, yeah. Choose to the format let’s choose that one with three sections on the top. Okay. There you put whatever you want to put. Alright, so, yeah. All right.

Max Carlson 1:04:14
Yeah, so I’ll put that there. And then this stuff is gonna go. Oops. These bits will go in here.

Maybe I want to put the version in that first one, though. I don’t know about that.

Ramkumar 1:04:52
And then this one in the third one, page number in the third one.

Max Carlson 1:04:58
Yeah, It isn’t the third one.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I don’t know. I kind of liked the way it looked better before. Um, let’s just leave it. How do I do this like force this.

Ramkumar 1:05:30
No, no, if you pasted it in the sections, it should have automatically adjusted, you don’t need to adjust it. Yeah.

Trevor 1:05:38
Yep. If you double click on the body of the document now then hit it and for editing.

Max Carlson 1:05:45
Sorry. Well, it’s got the right, it’s gonna

Ramkumar 1:05:48
double click outside that footer region. Yeah,

Trevor 1:05:51
yeah and then it will stop the editing. Yeah,

Max Carlson 1:05:55
so I mean I’d like it if this was like a bit more compact I guess but.

Ramkumar 1:06:03
Double click on play now.

Max Carlson 1:06:06
Yeah, right, I got that. Okay. So that could be worse. Right. So let me just go into the regular like a Web Layout. Um, okay. And then so these functional requirements I mean I think we should just take this out of the table format.

Ramkumar 1:06:33
You can call them normal or something.

Max Carlson 1:06:35
Yeah, so, uh, so how do you how do you, how can I like convert this from a table to like just regular text.

Ramkumar 1:06:45
You can’t as regular text

Trevor 1:06:50
it the problem that you have is that you need to put a heading in, right, because otherwise the whole paragraph, appears in your table of contents, and then your table of contents gets really big, so. Right. That’s why you do remember. You can’t just select all the things and then set them heading, because otherwise your, your table of contents becomes massive, right 15 pages right so you have to then go to each bullet point, you then have to create a text type in the heading and then you set it as Heading Three so it’s quite a lot of work, which is why David didn’t do it for his document,

Max Carlson 1:07:32
right. So, okay, well so let’s, um, let me just turn off the numbering and so this is heading type two, there we go. Right. And then you have a requirement, which is like this.

Ramkumar 1:07:53
Yeah, like that. Oops. and then I’m

Max Carlson 1:08:24
like should, which is really one of these

Ramkumar 1:08:37
debate and it is applied automatically.

Max Carlson 1:08:44
So okay, so this looks reasonably good to me. So we’ve got this stuff that you know I’m just gonna break out the must should and may as separate headers, sort of like an outline in reasonable. Okay. And then these. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So those have to be, oh why did you Colibri.

Uwe 1:09:42

Max Carlson 1:09:44
I can’t believe how weird this is. And it only goes through EM based on

Ramkumar 1:09:49
the other one right, it just been the best, best the best format, whatever you want. Okay. should me. Select the entire thing. Selected. What I’m saying,

Unknown Speaker 1:10:23

Max Carlson 1:10:24
well, when I double click on it it jumps me to the.

Ramkumar 1:10:27
No, no, no, don’t you select the end, the source format entirely, and then you place it and select the entire destination format and you convert that piece. Right, yep.

Max Carlson 1:10:40
So I’m just going to do it this way.

Ramkumar 1:10:43
And now you’ll click and hold, Here we go.

Max Carlson 1:10:46
Alright so in here,

Ramkumar 1:10:53
start numbering.

Max Carlson 1:10:55
What the hell like I just hit delete, and then it just. And this is one of the things, somebody must

think reuse actually go under here. And to do this. Should May, and then I’m nice, I’m just going to turn off the numbering because

Ramkumar 1:12:02
no is restart with one that should be fine, we’ll go to the six and restart with one and click on one and two, again,

Max Carlson 1:12:08
what doesn’t that screw up the. Oh, the numbering of the headers. Okay, no, no, no one. Okay. Yeah, that’s it. And then this one, I’m just going to. The only way you can do anything, is like copy and paste formatting, it’s kind of terrifying. Um, okay. So now we’re sort of back here. This is having fun. Yeah, yeah. What is it doing like it keeps just freaking out.

Ramkumar 1:12:56
The floor man is deciding it’s six or five or 5.1

Max Carlson 1:13:01
Yeah, so this one, I’m just gonna make this a Heading Two.

These are not going to be numbered. Oh Jesus.

Ramkumar 1:13:29
Just take off.

Max Carlson 1:13:32
Data structures resource model standards, data elements. Did I get the, my gosh, this numbering is just a total nightmare.

Ramkumar 1:13:50
Now the easiest thing is to take up all numberings and then start yeah number automatically. Yeah, so I can do out here of all the existing numbers.

Max Carlson 1:14:02
Yeah, I’m just gonna take all of these out.

Okay, that’s better standards data elements. I actually like this table, personally,

so Okay, turn off the numbering actually like this table. The problem is is not numbered. Anybody have any huge issues with that.

No. Okay. Okay. I’m also gonna try to eliminate

Ramkumar 1:15:06
data elements in the resource model, we can mention that it is a minimum set, there could be additional stuff on a given with one table. Sure, to be the minimum set. Okay. It is not the number of elements you have may change, it may increase. So we can say this is typical set of data elements needed.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:40

Max Carlson 1:15:50
Yeah I mean I kind of like this table, you know. Alright so example data elements, um,

Ramkumar 1:16:09
I can.

Max Carlson 1:16:19
Okay so service APIs is this like, can we just look at the outline so let’s see if I go up here and I like. Insert a. Can I do insert a table of contents here.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:56
How do you do that,

Trevor 1:16:58
you certainly have to go from the Insert, it’s the Reference tab, and then from the Reference tab you can insert your trc

Max Carlson 1:17:06
references. Okay.

All right, so something like that. Oh I don’t like that at all. Uh, why is it all blue though. Why is that, probably because it just. Okay. So let’s see, uh, I guess. After this, though, I want to insert like kind of a page break right. And then, let me just look at the print layout again. Um, and then in here I just want to insert. Alright so, a reference reference is inserted to see, is there like a nice plain one. I don’t know.

Yeah, that’s okay, I guess that kind of works. So, Steve does this seem like a reasonable, a reasonable formatting to you.

Steve 1:18:58
Yeah I think so. I mean I like, yeah, just makes things easy to identify and access. Yeah. The only thing I’ve wrestled with and it has nothing to do with numbering is that some of the important work is that section what five or six we’re doing that. Yeah, I guess, six, five and six is actually some of the important work and ends up so far down in the.

Max Carlson 1:19:26
Yeah exactly, workflows and

Steve 1:19:29
data structures workflows and API’s. I don’t, I don’t think there’s any way to fix that, though, you have to

Max Carlson 1:19:37
do all the preliminaries. Yeah. I’m not sure how to fix that either.

Okay, well, so. But does the does the TLC look roughly correct to you.

Steve 1:19:53
I think so, yeah,

Max Carlson 1:19:56
yeah, not quite so simple model schemas and then

Steve 1:20:01
alright so we’re yeah workflows is should be a major section.

Max Carlson 1:20:05
Right. I’m gonna take off these colons.

Oh, I think I screwed up the formatting of this thing, um, any suggestions on that.

Steve 1:20:32
Looks like there’s like a cell padding or something in there. I don’t know what I can

Trevor 1:20:40
select on the table. There’s an adaptive menu that comes up on the right hand side of your menu bar. And on that menu bar is then got your layouts for tables so when you select a table, you’ve got to set the table first. Yeah, yeah, and then you’ll see the the format or layout, there’s two new menu options that come up there. So if you see on the menu, not on the toolbar on the menu. Okay there table design, and that’s exactly, and then you can select what kind of table layout you want, and whether it’s got headers or barred or whatever those things are okay, a text.

Max Carlson 1:21:25
Yeah it’s like what is the what is

Steve 1:21:27
causing padding in front of all that’s every single text,

Ramkumar 1:21:30
what do you what do you want to achieve now. Yeah, it’s like there’s a tab in front of everything. Yeah, no, no, no one second. Can you click on the table icon on the. Yeah, that one. Yeah, now you go to home, go to Home, ma

think you’re missing one line here which says formatting. Paragraph. Yeah.

Trevor 1:22:03
If you select the table, it’s under your cells formatting.

Ramkumar 1:22:09
Yeah, right click, right click on the table again right click. Now,

Max Carlson 1:22:12
what’s in here isn’t it the cells formatting.

Ramkumar 1:22:18
No, you just right click, right click on the table. Uh huh. Yeah. Now, you see the cell. Table Properties,

row column table all these alignments and options. You can specify the offsets you want

Max Carlson 1:22:44
mouth. Yeah, I think it’s just in the text, somehow, it’s been stupid. You know, something in other words,

Trevor 1:22:58
if you go to your view menu to show the talk.

Ramkumar 1:23:06
You can you view things in nucleus view with that example. Yeah, yeah. So here, no this not this way. The other view than the top view.

Yeah, you can put sidebar on on net master document markup. Yeah, really, really formatting

is one, one row you’re missing in the toolbar, which gives you the. Let’s see the view something is missing there, no outline side, ruler, this pergola. That’s fine. There is one more length. There is one more which is the moment you get that

reveal formatting, just click reveal formatting as they’re doing that. Yeah, when you order boom, you get that bar in that bar you will have this paragraph. So the moment you click on paragraph you can set the whole table, to not have any spaces in index automatically. Yeah.

Wow, it’s like, stuck now. Okay. You can see the entire table, you can still go to layout.

Max Carlson 1:25:02
I’m just gonna do this manually, Because it’s like I don’t know.

Yeah. Oh my gosh I just read this is a pain oh, well it’s better that we’re suffering the pain then.

Ramkumar 1:25:25
No, no, I think we should just explore the one minute, let me open up my word here. There’s some difference in what you’re using and what, what I’m what I usually use. There’s some word version, probably.

Max Carlson 1:25:41
Well this is supposedly the latest version it’s just on a Mac so it’s already a second class citizen right there. Yeah. Yeah, and we’re done. So, I think maybe I’m just gonna adjust the this column width here. How do you adjust the column widths, so that’s a view, I think that’s the ruler right.

Ramkumar 1:26:12
See I have it here, the moment I go to home. Can I share my screen for a second, you can see what I Sure. One second. Share Screen leadership screen. Can you see this. Can you see my screen. Ah, hold on. Yeah. Okay, so this is something I’m liking a Porsche dealer glossary. Go to the table now, you can see here this is the example we are trying to write right ID, blah blah blah. So now if I, if I select this table is the thing on the paragraph on the top here. Yeah. Here I’m able to pick all the indents if I say we have set it to zero so it’s starting right at the beginning, now it just see what happens if I just set my intent to five. Yeah.

Okay, so at this point. Okay. So, if I want to quit get back I just go and make that zero, and a push back. Yeah, so I’m looking for this paragraph stuff on your thing, it’s just right underneath this and I don’t see that here. So maybe it’s something that you shut off in this view, maybe, maybe you should not choose Web Layout, choose Print Layout.

Max Carlson 1:28:13
Yeah, I am on Print Layout.

Ramkumar 1:28:18
Then, it works here. And then there’s another option here if I select the table, and right click here I get Autofit to see Autofit to contest Autofit to width. So this will automatically stretch everything and make it all. So if I say Auto Fit to Window. It’s adjusted to end to end now. Okay, Autofit to contents is automatically give word wrap sentence wrap whenever it’s our extra length. Yeah, well this is, I don’t know which version of this word and that word but this is how I’m saying, right. And this, By the way, this is the resource model. I’m using this is from. This is very similar to what TM forum is using. Yeah, they’ve got an attribute and format remarks and whether it is required or not, must show, blah blah blah. Yeah. They have also allowed, you know, declaring like this, objects, an array of objects. Okay.

I’ve seen there must be some shortcoming in it. Yeah,

Max Carlson 1:29:45
exactly. There’s always some shortcoming in the tool but it’s like a poor carpenter who blames his tools I guess so. Okay, so, um,

Ramkumar 1:29:58
so do you want me to format is out and dirty, you

Max Carlson 1:30:02
know I mean I think it’s done I mean, you know if you guys want to just take a look on my screen and let’s just, let’s see if it’s good enough and call it a day. Right, I mean we got this nice to see in here. The formatting looks okay to me. I mean, the other

Trevor 1:30:27
thing that you might want to do is put the golf stack logo in the header of. Yeah, yeah. what I did was I just went to the GAF step website right clicked on the logo. I copied the logo to the clipboard and then I pasted it into the, not the footer, but the header of each page.

Max Carlson 1:30:51
I see.

Ramkumar 1:30:52
Okay, and then the name of this document, building block definition template. Yeah.

Max Carlson 1:31:00
So, alright. So, let’s see, so where’s the where reminder where the header thing is

Ramkumar 1:31:14
layouts, right in the No, no, in the same panel on the right side, where it was right now.

Trevor 1:31:21
Yeah, you can just double click on the header backs and it works out for you.

Max Carlson 1:31:25
Okay, cool. Yeah. All right, so let’s just do this.

Inspect logo background, what is the actual URL of this thing. Well, You know what I’m good at this one here which is probably even better.

How do I select that though,

Trevor 1:32:09
let’s see yeah I think they basically placed the logo, the formatting of the website since I did my template is, I think I had a blue logo on a white writing on a blue background but now it’s gone inverted.

Max Carlson 1:32:24
Yeah, exactly. A perfect background visual. Oh, it’s all like folded into the backgrounds, that’s kind of unfortunate partnership. Inspect there. We’ll go background. Oh geez, it’s just an SVG. That’s not very helpful. All right, well there’s more than one, one way to skin the cat, I guess. Right, I’m just gonna just take a screen grab oh

Steve 1:33:02
yeah that’s what the dark one since the.

Max Carlson 1:33:13
Yeah, I think I want the light one. Yeah that one. Yeah. Oh my gosh this is so basic. Sorry, you guys, but it’s important. All right, so, and then I will just go over here and we’ll drop that in.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:38

Unknown Speaker 1:33:43
like that. Yeah,

Trevor 1:33:46
beautiful. It just helps it the branding and identification of the document.

Max Carlson 1:33:52
Yeah. What’s the, yeah, I don’t wanna make it too big. Okay, there we go. Every page has got that, oh, oh yeah, every page has got it. How about that. Okay, and then example.

Trevor 1:34:20
Did you put a date on the document. Uh, no. That’s the other thing. So, let the way that I always think about this is if you find a page or a document lying around, right, the context of it, the author of it. You could also put whether it’s confidential or open so that you know whether the information is sensitive or public domain, right, and you have a date and a version so that you get some context to the, to the document and where it belongs in the world. Yeah.

Max Carlson 1:34:57
Okay. So I inserted a date. Um, I just put a dynamic date. Do you think that’s it’s fine, it’s better than nothing. Yeah. Okay, cool. So, uh, alright so I just want to look through it. Make sure all the headers and all of that are reasonable, um, is a bit unfortunate.

Okay. Example resource model, that that there standards example standards. It’s really like that because we really want to encourage people to use these, uh, the headers workflows standards. Example workflow. So a standard is a separate thing. Or it’s a sub header Steve yet. Um,

Ramkumar 1:36:17
yeah, let’s see,

Max Carlson 1:36:19
registration of new person here I’m just gonna read that as part of workflow. Yeah. Okay, so maybe it’s easier here, maybe,

Steve 1:36:26
I don’t think it’s needed there or not.

Max Carlson 1:36:38
Yeah, I’m just gonna take out this header I guess that, well, we’ll leave it a workflow example workflow registration workflow. I mean, should standards be like its own thing.

Steve 1:36:53
No, we have standards, I mean there’s standards in a couple other places there’s right here is the part of the data models right.

Uwe 1:37:02
And then, okay, I don’t care. Yeah,

Steve 1:37:09
I don’t know if there are any standards that are relevant for the workflow is I don’t know if that’s important. Right.

Max Carlson 1:37:15
Okay and then interactions, do we want this table to be here. So is this like another one of these headings this interaction yeah

Steve 1:37:23
that’s another, that would be the same level as

Ramkumar 1:37:29
the. Yeah.

Steve 1:37:31
But again I borrowed this from the open HIE specs were they.

Max Carlson 1:37:37
Right, so that would be just another one of these two level headings. Yeah b 7.3 Okay, and then this is sort of its own thing. Other resources. These tables have this unfortunate thing where there. But that’s not that big a deal can deal with that. Okay, interactions were fine. Like this, you know. Um, okay, cool. And then key decision log, I guess this should be its own thing as well. Um, and I don’t know why it’s formatted all weird like that. So I’m just gonna. Wow look at that all of the Jake’s stuff came through all the comments and everything. It’s kind of amazing.

Steve 1:38:46
Another minor thing we could do want to update the version in the footer to like one data without one or one that one.

Max Carlson 1:38:56
Is this like a thing where I have to accept. I think I have to accept it, right. Yeah, it’s,

Trevor 1:39:01
I think the tracking changes are on.

Max Carlson 1:39:04
Okay, so I accepted that. So now that’s in there. Um, okay, cool. We got the key decision log, and then. Yeah, I guess it is officially 101 Isn’t it.

Okay, so, uh, yeah, it continues to bother me how these are sort of indented.

Trevor 1:39:36
Yeah Mac CC. If you go to your. I think it’s the home menu. Yeah, no, layout,

Ramkumar 1:39:45
I think,

Max Carlson 1:39:46
yeah, yeah,

Trevor 1:39:49
they should be somewhere there display ruler.

Max Carlson 1:39:54
Yeah, I’ve got the ruler here.

Trevor 1:39:57
So, basically, all you do is in your section you just specify where the the ruler is is it that the table is mounted too far to the left.

Max Carlson 1:40:07
Yeah I think so. So, because,

Trevor 1:40:11
yeah, That’s good, you can just do that and it pulls it in. Cool.

Max Carlson 1:40:18
And I think I did that already. All right, uh, you know, I’m sure it’s not perfect but this is a big improvement.

Trevor 1:40:31
Yeah I think it’s got all the key elements, you know, firstly, each page is identifiable. Yeah, to what is the context is referenceable so if someone sees the document, they they know where it is what is about and who did it and all that kind of stuff. And each of the key pieces of information is referenceable via some kind of numbered, or, or, you know, easily identifiable spot. So for me, that is, is good enough, that the other stuff I think is is academic and semantic you know about, you know branding and font size and eligibility and all those kinds of things which they value but I don’t want to overcomplicate it so I think this is spot on. It’s, it’s what you would expect is a minimum standard. And I’m happy with it.

Ramkumar 1:41:28
All right, anyone else. Right, I’m displaying I think it’s good.

Max Carlson 1:41:36
All right, cool. I’m cool. Hopefully this Yeah, hopefully that yeah, this, I’m hoping this will save you know the suffering we did today. I hope this all kind of like saved suffering for people in the future sorry

Trevor 1:41:56
there was one other thing. Have you got a version history.

Max Carlson 1:42:03
Well we got yeah we got the key decision log.

Trevor 1:42:07
No, no, it’s it’s the version of the document. So, like, you start with the version 1.0 dot zero. Yeah, and then you can put your original draft and the author, right and then you have a table with like version 1.0 dot zero, and then you can put a comment like added formatting standards, and, you know, either a person or a date. It just, it means then that you can have some kind of history of the document and what was different between one version and another, and whether it was a minor or a major change. It goes from, you know, version one to version two. Or, you know, kind of a minor change, or just some spelling errors which is like going from 0.00 to 0.01 That’s like spelling corrections and those kinds of things but. So, normally you would start the document. I mean, you got three decimal points. Okay, well, that’s fine. But this would actually be a, not necessarily a major revision, so it wouldn’t be a version two, but it would certainly at least be a version 1.1 Because you’ve done quite a significant amount of changes to the the format of the document, and, you know, you could even say it’s a version two because it is quite different to to the previous version but, I mean those again, they’re kind of philosophical discussions but I wouldn’t say that what we’ve done today is a minor revision and someone might miss that detail.

Max Carlson 1:43:46
Yeah, okay. So, Virgin. And then what are the columns you recommend.

Trevor 1:43:54
Usually you have the version number. Yep, an author and a comment. Mid table.

Max Carlson 1:44:03
Okay. Okay, so I guess this was Steve Right. I guess. Dial Alliance. Long or short. Okay, and then I’m going to a rose below.

I guess we have to put our all our names don’t wait

Trevor 1:44:55
as long as he’s got someone to reference it on it. He just tried to do it so that you can identify, you know, who changed it and why.

Max Carlson 1:45:05

Trevor 1:45:07
So the comment would be just applying documents standards to the template, something simple like that. Yep. And maybe I’m being pedantic, but I wouldn’t put this as a 1.0 dot one, because the reason that I say that is that if someone’s looking at the document. It is easier to spot the difference between version one and version two, than it is to spot the difference between version 0.00 and version 0.001 Right, yeah. So that’s why yeah something that’s fine, because then it’s easier for the people to see it. That’s why I actually don’t. I mean, again, it’s philosophical it’s just a personal preference, but I only go down to like a version 1.1 or 1.2 I don’t go down another level. But what we do as a lot of people are not international standards do that so I’m happy either way. But it just makes I think it makes it easier for people to identify that, whether they’ve got the right version of the template. Right.

Max Carlson 1:46:11
Okay. Update the entire table. All right, cool. All right, so that’s pretty handy. I feel.

Ramkumar 1:46:24
Okay. Okay,

Max Carlson 1:46:31
cool. So I’m gonna save it and then I’m going to upload it to Google Drive and then all hell’s gonna break loose. Yeah. It’s just like yeah, good luck guys. Building Block, you know, yeah definition execute. I remember the paperclip. Oh yeah remember Clippy.

Trevor 1:46:58
Remember, yeah, it comes up and say, Would you like me to completely screw your document up.

Ramkumar 1:47:03
Yes, please.

Max Carlson 1:47:05
like me to you late your work, I mean I think we got to give Google like Google’s gonna have their own little thing.

Steve 1:47:12
So, I’m wondering how this is going to look them. Yeah, let’s see.

There’s something there.

Uwe 1:47:26
Yeah. And,

Trevor 1:47:26
you know what, actually if you start putting your own stuff in it works relatively well. Does it once you, once you format it in in Word and upload it, it works well. It’s just the other way around, it’s just a disaster. So, you know, if you wanted to add your own section in now, we’re gonna put something in and then put a heading one or heading two, it will follow exactly what what you’ve already put in, it is following it. Exactly. That’s why, that’s why I said, it is easier to do all the stuff in in Word getting 100% and then load up because then once you do that, the Google Docs is actually quite good at retaining the overall document format pretty, and it does a pretty good job. But what it doesn’t do is if you do it all in, in Google Docs and then try and load it into Word then is complete disasters as you found out,

Max Carlson 1:48:21
right, table of contents so this thing. All right, so all of this. The only thing I want to do is like make it the right font, and make it black, you know, to color black. And then I’m happy with it. Yep. All right, let’s see. So, if I put it in print layout. A die see all the headers and footers all that you do, look at that. Amazing. So, I guess, do we want to accept these comments I mean,

Steve 1:48:58
summer we should probably go through those summer results, some are not. Okay, maybe worth just revisiting some of those. There’s some good suggestions in there.

Max Carlson 1:49:14
Accessibility. Well that’s kind of covered by the. Yeah, I

Steve 1:49:19
think some of those. Yeah, so we can cause like that’s covered in the

Max Carlson 1:49:23
privacy, to be its own section. Yeah, fair enough but. But I mean that’s kind of covered out. This is covered. Yes, I think that will agree it’s all I mean I think

Ramkumar 1:49:36
I responded back to somebody and close it. Yeah, okay.

Steve 1:49:47
The security building block there,

Max Carlson 1:49:48
yeah. Again, I think we can do that right out of scope.

Steve 1:49:57
That might be worthwhile. Must should May and then if, certainly we want to specifically call out we’re not doing.

Max Carlson 1:50:06
Okay. Um, Yeah I think so. Alright, and then let’s see the sort of data structures. Um,

Steve 1:50:34
I don’t know if it may be for this sector but is there Yeah,

I guess, yeah, maybe, maybe for functional requirements,

Ramkumar 1:50:46
or one thing I’m observing, Max resource model and data structure, and somehow dependent upon the subtype the use case they’re using, if they’re using a different. For example, each API, each API will provide as its own resource model, so that the one resource model treats all services, addressed by this building block. Right, so maybe they have to index it based on the service, they have to put an API, and then they have to consult on the resource model for the API, the structure for the data, the workflow for that API, blah blah blah.

Max Carlson 1:51:31
So, okay, so maybe we just had a section in here, prerequisites. It’s kind of what we’ve been doing anyway.

Trevor 1:51:45
I’m also actually wondering whether we need to put a table of document references or table of references in. Because if you, if you’re referencing one document. Many times you don’t want to put the full qualified part of the document version and everything, every time you reference it. So, you might, we might want to take a physical event now, because it would be good, so that if you went to a document and you had a table, he said by reference the security document, you know, version, 1.1, and then you couldn’t look at the table, otherwise, you’ve got to scan the whole document for your references.

Max Carlson 1:52:32
Yeah. Well, I mean that’s the other thing is we, you know, since you raise it we have to put the security, the links to the security requirements here right. So,

Trevor 1:52:45
yeah, that’s what triggered it off of when you know someone’s insecurity as capital will actually some of them do have to cross reference it and blah blah blah. So, yeah, okay. So, just might need a table of decid ready reference and it need not apply specifically for security because I could reference another building block like payments or another building block like registries or identity or whatever. So I think rather than putting it in each section that you know you could do that, I guess.

Max Carlson 1:53:31
Well, so there’s those cross cutting requirements right. I mean, we

Trevor 1:53:43
could put in there I guess cross cutting requirements you could have a table of these are the, you know the document names and versions that you’ve used to reference the requirements from other sections. That would also work, I guess.

Max Carlson 1:53:59
I mean, I prefer to just forced them to copy and paste it. You know what, yeah. I don’t know, I mean it’s sort of a double edged sword isn’t it.

Ramkumar 1:54:11

Trevor 1:54:12
I think, but what I think is worth, it might be find that then copy and paste it, But you still want to reference to which version of the document you copied and pasted it from because if they change the version of cyber security. So you do a version two security. Then there’s a process that each of the guys has to do that they have to now go back and read work the document to cross, make sure the references are correct,

Max Carlson 1:54:40
well let’s just try putting one in. Okay, and see what happens. So, this is the building block definition template Wait which one. So I put the version in here. And I guess that’s now wrong. Yeah. Okay, so that’s fixed. Alright so here. Uh, not they’re here. So here’s the actual link to the actual canonical PDF. And what they really, really need to be sure of is these cross cutting requirements. So Section Five. Right, yeah.

Trevor 1:55:45
Do you publish each version of things a separate URL, yes. Yeah, good. Okay,

Max Carlson 1:55:51
that’s the plan. Right. And this doesn’t include the exact date in the URL but and these URLs are ugly, but this is the best that I could do in short notice.

Trevor 1:56:01
Yeah, and the guides not important as long as you can, you know you can visually read it, and it makes sense so that I’m happy with that.

Max Carlson 1:56:10
Okay. Okay. And I’m just going to start it out. And,

Trevor 1:56:31
and it’s always a difficult one to know whether to copy and paste or whether to reference, but given the fact that, you know these are going to be sort of controlled and published. I think it’s fine that you allow them just to reference, because even if you change, for example the domain name of stack to government stack is to say, at least the clinical portion is will enable people to find it if you know I mean,

Max Carlson 1:57:03
yeah, exactly. Yeah, some. Okay, so I’m just going to put a security section in here as well. And just say, you know, what’s any don’t reply from Yeah, oh my gosh this is just like the detailed functional requirements. Yeah.

Trevor 1:57:37
Yeah, actually just looking at the security one. I think it’s best to reference them by section, because otherwise every document is going to be 102 pages long. The information, yeah. Okay,

Max Carlson 1:57:52
so let’s just put an example one, because I think this is so important. Right.

Trevor 1:57:59
Yeah, exactly. You know, so for example if you wanted to reference all the gateway API stuff, you can say this you know this is required all of distinction 6.1 in the security reference document, and then that person then effectively includes all of those 6.1, which is 6.11 to six point whatever, Right. And then you say once they explicitly exclude, they can say, with the exception of or whatever.

Max Carlson 1:58:36

Trevor 1:58:39
Because I think that that makes sense to keep things it’ll keep things fairly consistent so, you know, if you, if you’ve got processing requirements like, it must be open source or should be open source, it must have high availability, and those kinds of things. At least the chunks are fairly consistent across all the building blocks which is what you want really. Okay, if you list them individually, it is virtually nonsensical.

Max Carlson 1:59:08

Trevor 1:59:10
You might as well send out the document in binary.

Max Carlson 1:59:13
Yeah, so maybe if you just put the header like this though. Exactly. Then you just and then the context. Exactly. Okay, I think this makes sense. And we could also number these right and just, you know, that all hell’s gonna break loose. I’m scared of that. Yeah, exactly. Be careful. That seems to work.

Trevor 1:59:44
Yeah. Okay, that’s good.

Ramkumar 1:59:47
Yeah, thing that’s coming together, no.

Max Carlson 2:00:00
Okay, all right, cool. You know, I think this is, this is looking pretty reasonable.

Trevor 2:00:13
Yeah, and, and it looks a bit more kind of professional and not not criticizing the previous version, but it looks professional is not the right word. Macura I think is the correct word I’m looking for. Yeah, looks.

Max Carlson 2:00:27
Yeah, I like it. Um, Yeah, other credible. Yeah, exactly. Um, so links. Yeah. All right, cool. Unexpected test plan, you know section, agreed. Test Plan. Hmm. So I guess we should go through the rest of these comments, maybe.

Trevor 2:00:59
I’ve actually got a bit of a hard stop now.

Max Carlson 2:01:04
Okay. Well, it’s up there. So I’m just gonna I’ll post a link in the chat so everyone can get to it easily

think it’s a huge improvement anyway, never gonna be. Yep. Okay, cool. All right, well thanks gentle people. Always a pleasure, and we’ll speak next week Ronk Okay. Thanks, Max, do you want to. I know Teressa drop Do you want to rock or do you want to stay on and just talk about next week because we got to. We got a bit of work for you know cut out for us for, for Monday right. Monday is the first isn’t it. I think you’re muted buddy.

Ramkumar 2:02:00
Yeah. Hey, Max.

Max Carlson 2:02:03
We got until Wednesday. Yeah,

Ramkumar 2:02:06
I had to jump into another call, and sync up again. Okay, well let’s catch up next week. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Until soon and ballin.

Max Carlson 2:02:16
Okay, thanks so much. Alright bye, Thanks. RIGHT.

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